62
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  5  
Reply Fri 2 Sep, 2016 01:07 pm
@izzythepush,
Usually? Diplomatically it is the equivalent of "could you at least lower your profile" or "don't you kids make me get up off this chair."

The US and Israel have a complicated relationship: we defend them unequivocally and they **** all over the US.

0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  3  
Reply Sat 3 Sep, 2016 03:13 pm
http://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/israel-probe-us-teen-killed-mahmoud-shaalan-227711

Just like they covered up the murder of a U S girl run over on purpose by a bull dozer operator.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 8 Sep, 2016 09:02 am
Quote:

Why Israel’s actions can be called genocide
Israel lobby groups recently reacted with outrage against the Movement for Black Lives policy platform which refers to US complicity in Israel’s “genocide” and “apartheid” against the Palestinian people.

The president of the liberal Zionist organization J Street condemned the use of the term genocide as “outrageously incorrect and deeply offensive.”

Other pro-Israel Jewish organizations claimed that using the term to describe Israel’s policies is “anti-Semitic” and libelous. By contrast, Jewish Voice for Peace offered an unqualified endorsement of the Movement for Black Lives platform.

Despite the outrage of many pro-Israel groups, there is a long history of human rights scholarship and legal analysis that supports the assertion Israel is committing genocide, according to a statement from the Center for Constitutional Rights.

“Genocide can be applied to the destruction of a people or a national group as a viable group, and that can be both with their being driven from a land or the rendering of their language no longer legal, or just the destruction of their national identity,” Katherine Franke, board chair at CCR, told The Electronic Intifada.

Palestinians have claimed “that what the state of Israel has done is try to deny the very existence or presence of Palestinians in the area that was mandate Palestine before 1947,” she added.

“Nothing new”

Franke, a professor at Columbia University Law School, authored the statement in response to the “enormous, ugly backlash” against the Movement for Black Lives, which represents more than 50 Black organizations.

“As human rights lawyers, [we felt] it might be appropriate to just clarify the record that this was nothing new – that the term genocide had been applied by human rights activists, lawyers, scholars both inside law and inside other disciplines for many, many years,” she said.

Franke dismissed the claims by Israel lobby groups that using such terms to describe Israel’s policies against Palestinians is a form of anti-Jewish bigotry.

“Even the suggestion that the state of Israel may be committing a human rights violation is almost always taken in a somewhat reactionary way as a form of anti-Semitism,” she remarked.

“And of course, a criticism of a state is not the same thing as a criticism of an ethnic or religious group.”

Israel’s systematic targeting of Palestinians since 1947 has been referred to as “incremental genocide” – a term used by historian Ilan Pappe and echoed by Michael Ratner, a human rights lawyer and CCR’s former president, who died earlier this year.

“It’s been going on for a long time, the killings, the incredibly awful conditions of life,” Ratner said during Israel’s assault on Gaza in July 2014, referring to the expulsions of Palestinians from hundreds of towns and villages starting in 1947.

“It’s correct and important to label it for what it is,” he added. Ratner asserted that such crimes can be prosecuted in the International Criminal Court (ICC).

Franke told The Electronic Intifada that Palestinians “are pursuing a number of avenues” through the ICC to raise international legal violations that Israel has committed against them.

For example, the ICC has been conducting preliminary examinations of possible war crimes Israel committed during the summer of 2014 in the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.

However, charges of genocide have not been brought to the court yet, Franke said.


https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/nora-barrows-friedman/why-israels-actions-can-be-called-genocide
0 Replies
 
Builder
 
  3  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2016 04:02 am
The question needs to be said; why is this nation receiving support?
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2016 12:41 pm
@Builder,
Builder wrote:

The question needs to be said; why is this nation receiving support?


Because, in my opinion, tens of millions of voting Evangelicals believe that a Zionist Israel has to exist before the Second Coming to occur. And, believe it or not politicians do not want to lose elections because of the other constituency that can't understand Jews feeling that Judaism needs a safe haven from whomever.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Sep, 2016 02:44 pm
@Foofie,
Having nukes (and all the latest other war gadgetry) without being a signatory to the IAEC isn't enough to make them feel safe?

If five percent of what we see them doing to Palestine is truth, then they need a lot more than just stern warnings.

As for the evangelical bit, being rather selective there. Being Christian goes a whole lot further than making sure you're in the line-up for the pearly gates.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2016 12:00 am
@Builder,
This is a question I have been asking for several years of politicians and have yet to get a rational answer. I can only conclude it has to do with money.
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2016 01:39 am
@RABEL222,
Quote:
I can only conclude it has to do with money.


At a glance, it would appear that the lobby group (AIPAC?) uses aid money from the US govt, to bribe Congress to get what they want. The fact that arms supply is one of the few hugely profitable businesses not yet outsourced to China, and Israel is one of the key buyers (along with the Saudis) would also have quite a lot to do with the "stern warnings" and not much else.

So yeah, it is about money. The evangelical angle is still quite intriguing, though.
izzythepush
 
  4  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2016 01:57 am
@RABEL222,
If you look at the last lot of military aid for Israel you'll see it now comes with the condition that it's spent on American not Israeli arms. The biggest beneficiary of the defence aid is the American defence industry, and they can lobby with the best of them.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2016 10:48 am
@izzythepush,
Important info on military aid to Israel.
http://www.mintpressnews.com/216135-2/216135/
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2016 01:48 pm
@Builder,
Builder wrote:

As for the evangelical bit, being rather selective there. Being Christian goes a whole lot further than making sure you're in the line-up for the pearly gates.


Sorry, but some non-Catholics only believe in Ressurection; until then, one is just DEAD. You seem to subscribe to a version of Christianity that might think that great numbers means great correctness? Regardless, your opinions are not new, and are shared with many that just resent Jews having a LITTLE country. Of course, that's not your feelings. By the way, please advise me who the West Bank Palestinians were under before the 1967 war? They didn''t want a country under Jordan? They didn't want a country under the Ottoman Empire? Yes, reporting to a Jew can really be humiliating, I guess, if one is an Arab that can be worse than most pejoratives? And, since the West Bank was obtained in a war where Jordan is not contesting who has the land, most countries would have annexed the land by now and the occupants of the land made Israeli citizens. And, their land might have been used for development, based on eminent domain concepts. (Olive groves serve less of a function than housing for Israelis, in my opinion.)
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2016 02:01 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:
Sorry, but some non-Catholics only believe in Ressurection; until then, one is just DEAD.
That's what all those Christians do who subscribe to the Nicene Creed (which is the majority or Mainstream Christianity).
Others, like for instance the Templers, were expelled from their church: the latter had millennial beliefs and their aim was to realize the apocalyptic visions of the prophets of Israel in the Holy Land. Thus, they founded the so-called 'German colonies' in Palestine (Haifa, Jaffa, Jerusalem and so on).
Builder
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2016 02:13 pm
@Foofie,
Quote:
You seem to subscribe to a version of Christianity that might think that great numbers means great correctness?


I don't subscribe to any of the 4,200 recognised versions of the 'one true god' concept.

All of the worst things happening on the planet at any given point in time can be ascribed to a "belief" that the mob rule must be the only rule.

Not that our "leaders" do any more than pay lip service to their "belief".
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2016 02:35 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Been to all three places, Haifa, Jaffa, Jerusalem. Didn't know they were German colonies.
Learning something new is great.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  6  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2016 02:49 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Builder wrote:

As for the evangelical bit, being rather selective there. Being Christian goes a whole lot further than making sure you're in the line-up for the pearly gates.


Sorry, but some non-Catholics only believe in Ressurection; until then, one is just DEAD. You seem to subscribe to a version of Christianity that might think that great numbers means great correctness? Regardless, your opinions are not new, and are shared with many that just resent Jews having a LITTLE country. Of course, that's not your feelings. By the way, please advise me who the West Bank Palestinians were under before the 1967 war? They didn''t want a country under Jordan? They didn't want a country under the Ottoman Empire? Yes, reporting to a Jew can really be humiliating, I guess, if one is an Arab that can be worse than most pejoratives? And, since the West Bank was obtained in a war where Jordan is not contesting who has the land, most countries would have annexed the land by now and the occupants of the land made Israeli citizens. And, their land might have been used for development, based on eminent domain concepts. (Olive groves serve less of a function than housing for Israelis, in my opinion.)

The thrust of anti-Zionist thought isn't based on resentment of Jews having a little country. The thrust of anti-Zionist thought is based on the fact that the Zionists, in their pursuit of a country for Jews, are oppressing the indigenous populations in the land that the Zionists have appropriated. That is the crux of the matter which you assiduously avoid in your disingenuous strawman replies. Cognitively dissonant much?

As for Jordan's control of the West Bank after the Nakba of 1948, the Palestinians relate with the Jordanians much, much more than the Zionists seeing as how they share a common Levantine culture, while the Zionists brought their culture from Central and Eastern Europe. In this regard, reporting to a Jew, specifically, is irrelevant. Reporting to a Micronesian would be just as humiliating not because of their ethnicity but because of their oppression of the Palestinian peoples in pursuit of the Micronesians' cause.

Decent countries would have afforded the indigenous populations of Palestine their rights throughout all of Palestine, especially as called for by international resolutions passed by the UN, the very international body that the Zionists point to to justify their international legitimacy.
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2016 04:03 pm
@InfraBlue,
The United States is a party to the crimes of (Israel) the Zionists.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_UN_resolutions_concerning_Israel_and_Palestine
InfraBlue
 
  2  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2016 04:25 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Yes, for all intents and purposes, the US is a Zionist nation.
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2016 05:35 pm
@InfraBlue,
Not me, but I get your point.
Glennn
 
  4  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2016 06:20 pm
@InfraBlue,
Quote:
Decent countries would have afforded the indigenous populations of Palestine their rights throughout all of Palestine, especially as called for by international resolutions passed by the UN, the very international body that the Zionists point to to justify their international legitimacy.

This is so excellently said.
RABEL222
 
  4  
Reply Wed 21 Sep, 2016 08:45 pm
@Glennn,
As much as I hate to admit it, you are all right. the U S of A is a Zionist nation and should accept that we have given aid to Israel in their crimes against the Palistianian people. We are just as guilty as Israel.
0 Replies
 
 

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