62
   

Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

 
 
timur
 
  4  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2015 06:48 am
LHoppen wrote:
territories that had been taken away from her by the Romans, then the Greeks,
Chronology is not your forte, is it?

Let alone history..
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2015 07:28 am
@izzythepush,
France making another deal to surrender unconditionally .
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2015 07:39 am
@timur,
You like chronology ? How about the Egyptians, the Babylonians, the Greeks, the Romans, the Greeks, Abbasid Caliphate, (the Mongols almost), the Mamluks, the Ottomans, the British . You knew the Byzantine Empire is considered Greek, as chronology is your forte, right ?
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2015 07:58 am
@Ionus,
Well, don't forget the French and Germans, who ruled their over nearly 200 years.
Olivier5
 
  3  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2015 08:14 am
@Ionus,
Yep.... So many people conquered that land. That place is cursed.

There is the concept of "resource curse": when a country is doomed to conflict due to its vast mineral resources. In the case of Palestine, one could speak of "religion curse": a place doomed to war by its religious significance.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2015 08:14 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
Well, don't forget the French and Germans, who ruled their over nearly 200 years.
And the Hasmoneans, the Persians, the independent states of Israel and Judea....lots of little amounts of time but I think I got the main ones .
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2015 08:19 am
@Olivier5,
It exists in a prime area...it provides access from the Med. Sea to Iraq, access between Anatolia and Egypt, access between Egypt and Asia in general, sits atop the Arabian Peninsula which is equal in size to Europe, its just a bad place in general to have a nation from the historical point of view .
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2015 08:27 am
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:
... sits atop the Arabian Peninsula which is equal in size to Europe,...


http://i57.tinypic.com/15zs27n.jpg
http://i62.tinypic.com/2poxh0m.jpg
It certainly might look different from the southern hemisphere
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2015 08:28 am
@Ionus,
Every place "provides access" to some other place... This is not about geography. God cursed the land. And I don't mean it literally, I mean that different brands of monotheism are bound to fight for that piece of land forever and ever. The Babylonians, and later Emperor Adrian, who both razed the temple, understood that. Ezra should never have rebuilt it, and Caliph Omar should never have built a mosque upon it. It just perpetuated the curse.
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2015 08:35 am
@Walter Hinteler,
The size is irrelevant, it's not about size, it's about the indigenous population being forced off their land by white colonists.
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2015 08:37 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Damn it ! Lucky I have you Walt Very Happy That should be Western Europe . I'm sitting in all this Global Warming freezing my arse off . All of my European friends on visiting Oz have siad they have never had it so cold . Not a single centrally heated home in the country ! Well...maybe one . But not this one . And its after midnight, which means I get scared and should go to bed .
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2015 08:41 am
@Olivier5,
Quote:
different brands of monotheism are bound to fight for that piece of land forever and ever.
Seems that way doesnt it .
Olivier5
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2015 08:52 am
@Ionus,
Yep, and that story is far from finished. If everything goes as before, the Jews will build the third temple, and it will be destroyed by war a few decades later. Until the next time.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2015 10:54 am
@georgeob1,
I am not being an ass...and I think that Izzy just came a lot closer to the truth on the question I asked than is comfortable for you.

He at least attempted to answer my question...you have not even made an attempt. So here's another chance:

Explain to us about...

Quote:
Getting rid of those who simply won't cooperate; make the required effort; or meet required standards is also essential to success.
InfraBlue
 
  3  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2015 03:17 pm
@timur,
timur wrote:

LHoppen wrote:
territories that had been taken away from her by the Romans, then the Greeks,
Chronology is not your forte, is it?

Let alone history..

HA, the State of Israel was established in 1948, yet the Romans and Greeks took territories away from her.

What religious mythologies do to peoples' ideas of "history"!
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  0  
Reply Fri 5 Jun, 2015 03:30 pm
@Frank Apisa,
That's what the aristo does, insult and ridicule those who do not respect the established order, refuse to seriously debate any idea that threatens the established order, label those who hold contrary ideas degenerate.

It's been going on for years.
Foofie
 
  3  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2015 06:29 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

That's what the aristo does, insult and ridicule those who do not respect the established order, refuse to seriously debate any idea that threatens the established order, label those who hold contrary ideas degenerate.

It's been going on for years.


Perhaps, you are mistaking the U.S. upper middle class for aristocratic poseurs? The U.S. upper middle class might be so much better off than their proverbial British "cousins" that they might seem aristocratic? There is no aristocracy in the U.S.; however, some do subscribe to social-class, which might just reflect a combination of religious affiliation, ethnic identity, how long one's ancestors have been in the U.S., and club/educational affiliations of one's family for the most part, I believe.

Remember, people do tend to take care of one's own, so. for example, many a WASP from a plain working class family in the U.S. "hinterlands", upon graduating some college, goes to the big city and then finds that corporate America will put him/her in a quasi-plum position based on one's last name. That is just the way it is; the early bird does catch the worm, and they have been here the longest, and there is a camaraderie, I believe, amongst those whose families fought in more historical wars, and did the proverbial heavy lifting by having family members that were here to suffer before fevers and epidemics were eradicated.

By the way, how many British would vote for a Black Prime Minister. My point is that comparing Americans to British and their ways is tantamount to comparing apples to oranges, in my opinion.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 7 Jun, 2015 11:16 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

The size is irrelevant, it's not about size, it's about the indigenous population being forced off their land by white colonists.

Odd that Izzy should make this point since the British have been doing this in Scotland, Ireland and throughout their former empire for many centuries.

Odder still since his reference is to Palestine which the British took by force duuring WWI after first and duplictously promising the land to both the Arabs and European Zionist, in pursuit of their colonial interests in the case of the Arabs, and monetary interests in the case of European Zionists. Later, as we saw in 1947 when the **** hit the fan the British simply bugged out, bequeathing the mess they created to others.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  4  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 07:55 am
Quote:
Israelis and Palestinians would gain billions of dollars from making peace with each other while both would face daunting economic losses in case of other alternatives, particularly in case of a return to violence, according to a new study.

The RAND Corp., a U.S.-based nonprofit research organization, interviewed some 200 officials from the region and elsewhere during more than two years of research into the costs of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Its main finding was that following a peace agreement, Israelis stood to gain $120 billion over the course of a decade. The Palestinians would gain $50 billion, marking a 36-percent rise in their average per-capita income, the report said.

In contrast, the Israeli economy would lose some $250 billion in foregone economic opportunities in a return to violence, and the Palestinians would see their per-capita gross domestic product fall by as much as 46 percent, the report said.
Full report & source

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Mon 8 Jun, 2015 07:55 am
@Walter Hinteler,

http://i61.tinypic.com/1skwg4.jpg
Rand Corp.: The Costs of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
 

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