Can you look at this map and say Israel does not systemically appropriate land?

It's about a personal decision about my understanding about the politics of this country. It offers nothing for people like me who has learned through over half a century of being involved with voting every year and writing to my congressional reps and presidents. They mean nothing in the overall scheme of my experience with US politics. Why should I bother? It's a personal decision that I'm only sharing with people on a2k. Whether they agree or disagree is not my issue or problem.

In other words, nothing of any interest or value. Even when you aren't trying you are irrelevant.

The only reason Hamas is designated a terrorist organisation is because Israel calls the shots. Hamas is an organisation with limited territorial ambition that poses absolutely no threat to America or the US, and it is an organisation that can be dealt with. When a BBC journalist was kidnapped by The Palestinian Army Of Islam, Hamas rescued him.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapping_of_Alan_Johnston

In the early days Hamas received funding from Israel because they wanted to weaken the mainly secular and nationalist Fatah. It was only later that they realised their mistake. This is typical of the West's approach to the ME and Islam in general. Not only has there been lopsided support for Israel, but really nasty dictators have been supported just as long as they were pro western in their outlook. All moderate, democratic voices, (the people we should be supporting) were quashed. The result being that the only consistent opposition to Western hegemony was radical Islam, and the more the West stamped on secular democrats, the more extreme and powerful these organisations became.

That has ended up with ISIS, (who even Al Qaida believe are too extreme,) taking control over parts of Iraq and Syria. Until moderates are rewarded this cycle will continue. Throughout Mahmoud Abbas' presidency illegal settlement building has actually increased, and the daily persecution of the Palestinians in the West Bank has got a lot worse. His negotiations with Hamas to make sure the Palestinian people speak with one voice are used as an excuse by Israel to continue building illegal settlements and to avoid talks.

This conflict began with the kidnapping and murder of three Israeli students. Israel's response was typically heavy handed, many Palestinians were killed in the so called "investigation." This "investigation" was a sham, Israel wasn't interested in finding out who the perpetrators were, they blamed Hamas and attacked Hamas' leadership. Most impartial commentators thought that seeing how Hamas had just entered a partnership with Fatah, it was highly unlikely to be them. It was more likely to be one of the more extreme groups, (of which there are many) like Islamic Jihad, The Palestinian Army Of Islam or an even more extreme organisation.

So what is the ordinary Palestinian to think? Despite "negotiations," and a moderate president the occupation continues, and actually gets worse. A hard line organisation like Hamas despite offering cease fires and talks is at best ignored, or bombed the crap out of. They look over to Syria and see the success of ISIS. It's logical to assume that the only way they can get self determination is to take a leaf out of ISIS' book and embrace full blown radical Islam.

Bottom line, Israel would not negotiate meaningfully with Fatah and they got Hamas. If they don't negotiate with Hamas they're going to have to deal with a body far more extreme. That will kick off across the ME and come back to haunt us in the West.

Actually I only address it when someone else brings it up.

It is unlikely that this was the cause of your vagueness. Most likely you had nothing to say, and so were saying nothing. And now you are trying to add a bit of gratuitous rudeness to your nonsense, because that's just the sort of person that you are.

I understand most of what you wrote, but the overriding facts are that the US support of Israel without any regard for the murderous treatment of Palestinians by Israel cannot be overlooked or minimized. The US foreign policy is not based on democracy or fairness and equality. As I've stated in other forums, the US government as well as our people are broken.

What has been happening in Israel will not change, and no voice of reason for humanity will not be heard or responded to. Our government's support of Israel is a crime against humanity. There is no hope of change.

Islam is a crime against humanity.

Gratuitous rudeness on my part? Do you read your posts after you have written them?

buttbrain doesn't know much of anything. His belief that Islam is a crime just doesn't understand world religions. One fifth of the world population are Muslims; the majority live in peace. However, the christian country called the USofA that represents only five percent of the world population has been responsible for illegal wars and have killed tens of thousands of innocent men, women and children. The US's support for Israel is also a crime against humanity; the stealing, killing, bigoted country of Israel that treats others without any respect and dignity for Palestinians are proof positive that they are the criminals against all humanity.

buttbrain is a hopeless bigot like the Zionists of Israel.

Yes.



Usually.

Then terror, murder, intimidation, female genital mutilation, flogging, beating, and stoning, not to mention killing homosexuals, is not a crime?

In other words asshole he has lost confidence in his government because they are only subservient to the very very rich and screw everyone in the middle and lower classes. Your not very observant for someone who thinks of himself as a genius.

I do not need the names, apparently you do. Go away.

Good post, izzy.

Unfortunately, this is much of the Third World's culture, which is still lagging behind. And yet, "intimidation" does not only play a role in the physical term but in the political world as well. American Politicians are so corrupt that the majority should never be elected dog catcher. Terror, murder, are acts which take place in all so-called civilized countries. Look at how Dick Cheney's US interrogated captured prisoners of war using water torture and then claim it was a good act! Even up until recently we had extremist bent on killing Homosexuals. Remember the Matthew Shepard murder in 2004? Many homosexuals were beaten not too long ago in the US. There are still extremists against Gays today and other minorities.

Stoning and flogging belong in a third world country unfortunately, it still lingers in some tribal societies today.

You seem bent out of shape for some unknown reason which I fail to see.

Hey buttbrain, your myopia proves you to be quite stupid and uninformed.
The violent crimes in the US outweighs any crimes committed by different religious groups. Your ignorance about the crimes committed in this country which is over 75% christians makes the crimes in the Middle East religious groups seem minor in comparison.

From Wiki on white crime over all others.


As you were saying about Islam and Muslims? You're pretty dumb; quit proving it over and over by your ignorant posts.

By Associated Press July 25 at 3:37 PM
GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip -- Israeli defense minister tells troops Israel might significantly widen Gaza ground operation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/israeli-defense-minister-tells-troops-israel-might-significantly-widen-gaza-ground-operation/2014/07/25/d79d5220-1432-11e4-ac56-773e54a65906_story.html

----

Israel calls Brazil a 'diplomatic dwarf' -- and then brings up World Cup humiliation

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2014/07/25/israel-brings-up-brazils-world-cup-humiliation-and-calls-the-country-a-diplomatic-dwarf/

How astute. True. Israel, undisputedly, calls all the shots. Returning to previous recent history, the PLO was considered a terrorist operation by Israel and the US followed along. Once Jimmy Carter became president, he appointed African American Andrew Young to be his Ambassador to the UN. Carter had Ambassador Young meet in secret with Arafat, head of the PLO to try to understand the core of the problem with Israel. When Israel found out about it, they demanded Andrew Young be fired.

Andrew Young stepped down, but that did not stop Carter who was determined to see for himself just what the problem was. He did just that by sending an envoy to meet with Arafat, and after that meetings began in the open.

President Carter's reasoning was this: If we do not talk to people how are we ever going to learn what the problem is. Israel dared not reprimand the then President of the United States.

Later, Jimmy Carter brokered a successful meeting between Israeli prime minister Menachem Begin and Egyptian prime minister Anwar Sadat. This was Carter's legacy. (Israel had captured the entire Sinai Peninsula during the 1967 war, and Egypt wanted it back. I guess Israel was planning to build settlements there as well.)

Iran is being accused of wanting to build a nuclear bomb. The reality is Israel is afraid of the tough talk previously given by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, and so has considered Iran a terrorist nation, bent on destroying Israel. Truth is Iran only had a war with Iraq and is known to want technology for energy purposes not for a nuclear bomb which if used would make the entire Middle East uninhabitable! The culture of Iran has evolved over thousands of years of recorded history and was amongst the first civilizations in the world.

Yet, the US views Iran as a threat. Why? Because Israel has said they were. It's as if the US follows Israel's lead in everything involving the middle east.

This tail wags the dog scenario has been going on for so long, I see no hope of any change. The US is directly responsible for supporting Israel's genocide against the Palestinians.

I'm not minimising or overlooking Israel's crime's. I've been a lifelong supporter of the Palestinians, but the facts are more complex. If you were one of the majority Shia in Bahrain ruled over by a Sunni political elite with American backing the Israel/Palestine conflict would not be first in your list of grievances. The Pakistanis are more concerned with unauthorised drone strikes on their territory. Al Qaida's reason for 9/11 was the American troops stationed in "Holy Land," Saudi Arabia.

The West's whole approach towards the ME has been screwed up from the beginning. A good start would be to stop supporting Israel with immediate effect, but that's just a start. Instead of accommodating Sisi we should stop supporting him as well, and demand the release of all political prisoners and a free press.

Thank you.