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Why aren't christians deliriously happy?

 
 
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2009 05:33 pm
My friend put this across the other day, and I just thought it was interesting, although obviously not strong enough for me to take it as any form of solid idea, so i thought I'd put it to you guys.
If there's any indication that religion is socially constructed and a very 'human' trait, it's that christians aren't deliriously happy.
They have the answer, the 'key', all they need do is act in the same way they have been acting, which they know is right, and they will achieve AN ETERNITY OF PARADISE. Thats pretty much better than any one of us can imagine.
So why do earthly shackles still bother them?
Is there any christian that can tell me the reasons why they aren't ******* well chuffed?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 10 • Views: 3,038 • Replies: 45
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Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2009 06:25 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
Quote:
So why do earthly shackles still bother them?
Is there any christian that can tell me the reasons why they aren't ******* well chuffed?



Yo Queen…

…we haven’t met.

I’m Frank…and I am usually very frank. You seem to be rather frank yourself…although it is obvious you are not Frank.

I remember, way, way back, earlier in my lifetime, this go-go dancer “friend” of mine who not only was a Christian…she also loved being cuffed. (By the way, you did mean “cuffed” not chuffed"or is that one of those British English words?)

Anyway, I would cuff her up…always being sure I had the key BEFORE wrapping ‘em around her wrists and ankles (learned about that the hard way!)…

…and then we’d do the deed.

And she was one happy Christian…lemme tell ya! Yeah!

Thinking it over now, I am sure it had less to do with going wherever she eventually was going to go…but rather the coming, so to speak.

Now, Queen, the last thing in the world I would want is for the fact that this one Christian woman was “deliriously happy” at times to impact on your conclusion that the god-concept is more likely a human construct than a reality. I think there is a good chance that you are correct in that conclusion.

I just wanted to introduce myself…and the story was so appropriate to your post, I couldn’t resist.

“Resist” in that sentence was not a play on words!
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2009 07:47 pm
Cannot agree. Actually, all religious people tend to be happier than non-religious people; you can look it up. At least in the U.S.A. But then again, the U.S. is God's country, and continually blessed.
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2009 07:57 pm
@The Pentacle Queen,
Quote:
So why do earthly shackles still bother them?


Because they are, after all, human.

Like Frank, I do not know the word chuffed and although I find your sentence that includes the word to be rather intriguing I have no answer for this.

If Christians are happy at the prospect of spending eternity with God, then what is wrong with finding annoyances at those things that are challenges for them here on earth?
0 Replies
 
Green Witch
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2009 08:04 pm
When I stayed in England, I remember the word "chuffed" as meaning pleased or happy about something.

Example: After our team won we were feeling rather chuffed.
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2009 08:06 pm
To paraphrase some comedian whose name escapes me at the moment: "Why do Christians wear seat belts?"
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2009 08:11 pm
@patiodog,
Likewise to paraphrase Richard Dawkins, 'Why do christians, visiting their dying christian friends, look so sad? Isn't impending death a cause for celebration?'

Cognitive dissonance perhaps?

And wow - FRANK! S'bin ages! Now I'm chuffed!
0 Replies
 
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2009 08:12 pm
@patiodog,
Haha, hi Frank.
I remember you from a couple of years back when you used to post on the philosophy boards- have always liked your adamant agnosticism.

Sorry for my english colloquial- chuffed is, as you say, to feel happy about something.

0 Replies
 
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2009 08:21 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie- Well I am normally naturally extremely happy- and I put this down to my indifferent perception of the world, and by this i mean not taking things personally and enjoying the good bits.
Maybe the USA is happy because it's well ******* rich.
What constitutes as 'religion' anyway? Can it be counted as belief? Where do I look this up?

I think it boils down to nietzsche's point about purpose: Humans tolerate suffering so long as there is purpose involved.
BUT (in my opinion) really not to a high enough level as if they were totally convicted of this 'truth.' Their happiness appears at the same kind of human level as most people who live their lives by secular positive doctrines, whether these be institutionalized or just a result of a kind of 'wisdom.'
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 6 Jan, 2009 08:28 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie wrote:

Cannot agree. Actually, all religious people tend to be happier than non-religious people; you can look it up.

I doubt that. Do you have a source for that claim?

saab
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 05:26 am
@rosborne979,

according to many recourses religious people seem to be happier and it seems as they better can coop with problems i daily life.

Put in following in google - religious people and happiness - and you will get over 3 million answers. Of course I have not read them, but take your choice.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 05:42 am
@saab,
Quote:
Put in following in google - religious people and happiness - and you will get over 3 million answers. Of course I have not read them, but take your choice.


Wow. Never hiring you as a research assistant. Google doesn't give answers it give pages that have the text strings searched for included them. You found over 3 million pages that have the words 'religious', 'people' and 'happiness' somewhere in them - not even adjacent to each other or even in that order.

Consider this: your search would retrieve a page that said 'The following groups will never achieve happiness: religious people, ...' and you think that search supports your argument? Type in 'boobs' and 'happiness' or 'alcohol' and 'happiness'

In addition your search strategy ignores the question's parameters - ie it is about christians, not religious people per se - no muslims, hindus, sikhs or buddhists.

Don't piss off the librarian.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 06:00 am
Okay...one quick positive thing about religion from the agnostic!

It sure give you a chance to have interesting discussions on the Internet...and to renew old acquaintences.
0 Replies
 
Francis
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 06:06 am
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

Foofie wrote:

Cannot agree. Actually, all religious people tend to be happier than non-religious people; you can look it up.

I doubt that. Do you have a source for that claim?


Well, foolish foofie is again uttering his unsupported crap...
0 Replies
 
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 04:34 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

Foofie wrote:

Cannot agree. Actually, all religious people tend to be happier than non-religious people; you can look it up.

I doubt that. Do you have a source for that claim?



Years of observing those who are bible believing Christians. Perhaps, it is just Evangelical Christians that are happier? In my estimation, I know few really happy Catholics, or lapsed Catholics. Perhaps, it is because Catholicism is sort of impersonal in its rites and rituals, in my opinion? Or do Catholics tend to not show their happiness for others to notice?
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 04:37 pm
@Foofie,
foofie wrote:
Years of observing those who are bible believing Christians. Perhaps, it is just Evangelical Christians that are happier? I know few really happy Catholics, or lapsed Catholics. Perhaps, it is because Catholicism is sort of impersonal in its rites and rituals, in my opinion?


Oh, that's Ok then, seeing how it's solidly researched, you have the primary data and there were control groups... :wink:

More seriously though, had you considered that maybe you act differently in the company of people who share your beliefs? And that your behaviour in turn affects the company you're in? Just wondrin'.
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 05:11 pm
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:

foofie wrote:
Years of observing those who are bible believing Christians. Perhaps, it is just Evangelical Christians that are happier? I know few really happy Catholics, or lapsed Catholics. Perhaps, it is because Catholicism is sort of impersonal in its rites and rituals, in my opinion?


Oh, that's Ok then, seeing how it's solidly researched, you have the primary data and there were control groups... :wink:

More seriously though, had you considered that maybe you act differently in the company of people who share your beliefs? And that your behaviour in turn affects the company you're in? Just wondrin'.


Listen, I am a secular Jew. I do not think the happiness was a ploy to have me convert to their happiness paradigm. They were truly happy, since they believe in their having assured Salvation. Other Christians may not be so sure. In effect, they might not have the same reason to be happy.

Personally, I never met a bible believing Evangelical that I did not like. They tend not to be pompous, pretentious, arrogant, petulant, etc. In a way, I envy them for their joy and ability to believe. I cannot believe. But that does not make me want to trivialize their happiness.
mismi
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 05:36 pm
@Foofie,
Foofie - thank you for that - I do feel like people are trying to submarine me at times for my beliefs.



I think that Christians are the same as everyone else. We struggle with the unseen just as most people do. We have heartaches and hard times - are made fun of and made to feel stupid for believing as we do, we get sick and we are scared of dying sometimes (despite the fact that we believe there is a heaven - we are human and can doubt) - but we also enjoy the happy things - I think the one thing inportant about Christians is -what most of us cling to is hope. The hope that one day there won't be a tear in our eyes, that one day we will live together in peace, that one day we will be better than we are now.

And I know that the more intellectual of you will see this as a coping mechanism - so what? Hope is a great thing...I bet it gets more people through crap situations than anything else. The problem most people who do not believe have is that they think Christianity is exclusive - it's not. Anyone can choose to believe if they will. There are some who feel that they have to force these beliefs on others - I am not one of them. We all have to live as we are convicted.

But the thing is - for me- as a Christian - I cannot seperate the idea of hope and belief - I DO believe. My desire to do better, to love others better, to be kind, to help when I can - these all are a part of my belief and it comes in the example of Christ. I am a better person than I was before - I know this. I can't prove it to you all...my simple desire is that others know this same feeling if they want to.

I spoke out here to say - Christians don't behave as they should all the time...I know I don't. We are still fallible, screw ups in many cases. But what should distinguish us is our care for others and the hope that we cling to in hard times. I have a hard time believing the screaming pastor from a pulpit understands the love of God - but who am I to say? I do not know his heart- so I do not judge - though it is hard. But Christians as a whole will be known by how they treat others. Scripture says so.

I am no theologian, I do not understand the Old Testament or Revelations to be perfectly honest with you. I know you can poke all kinds of holes in how the Bible is written and who wrote it and some people who claim to be Christians are horrible examples of Christ - BUT - my belief and passion for Christ - following his teachings, my belief that he died on the cross for all and that all who choose to, can believe - cannot be explained - it just is what it is. I am a wild child at heart and enjoy joking around....it is a constant battle to keep myself in line - but - I can't imagine God frowns upon that - I think he appreciates that about me. He made me this way, so I have to believe he did it for a purpose.

I may flounder at times - I have many times in the past and expect to in the future as well...but I have found that something inside cannot resist the Gospel...it just is what it is. I do believe that every time I struggle through a hard time - I seem to come back through stronger and better - who knows - maybe one day before I die - I will make it to that deliriously happy place - but really - knowing me - I doubt it...but I can hope Wink
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 05:42 pm
@Foofie,
I'm inclined to agree there actually, although it is unsupported.
The evangelical focus is definitely less oppressive than the catholic, its more liberal, focusing on salvation- what you get if you believe, rather than confession- what you get if you step out of line.

Foofie, I think its still possible to attain that type of happiness. You don't need a god to have a positive attitude, forgiving ethic, inner strength, wisdom or understanding, although it helps.
Personally, I'm not having 'god' take all the credit for my insight and hard work. Wink
The Pentacle Queen
 
  1  
Reply Wed 7 Jan, 2009 05:51 pm
@mismi,
You posted that while I was posting.
Yah, sorry but i'm going to submarine you.
It sounds like you do all the things I do, but through the mechanism of christianity.
I think it's just difference.
I don't believe in any 'answers' so i'm not saying you're wrong. But obviously i think its ill-thought out and unlikely. It appears that christianity is at the root of your 'self'- an organisation of thoughts and philosophy. Others have similar, but secular life philosophies. From your post it definitely appears that your is centered around your fulfillment in life and desire to believe rather than anything concrete.
Each to their own, thats just my take.
 

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