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FINAL COUNTDOWN FOR USA ELECTION 2008

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 04:55 pm
@FreeDuck,
FreeDuck wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:

I saw nothing wrong in the excerpts I just posted. I see a LOT wrong with the spin and rhetoric trying to portray the Obama campaign as so high minded and so pure and above-the-fray that any criticism of their words or intentions or tactics or motives is unwarranted. They can and do play just as down and dirty as anybody else. Which was my whole point all along.

Wait. You saw nothing wrong in the excerpts, yet you used them to illustrate your point, which is that the Obama campaign can and do play just as down and dirty as anybody else. So, harmless quotes equals down and dirty. Do I have that right?

Quote:
I don't think it is necessary to dissect every component that goes into my point in order to recognize that this is my point.


This is your point? After talking about who is making the comparisons between Obama and Palin, and going round and round about whether Obama did it in a press conference (with the revolver), it turns out that your point all along is that the Obama campaign is not pure of heart?




FD, we were having a conversation in which I obviously was on a different track than you. That isn't an unusual circumstance between you and me. I will agree to disagree on this if you will. I could go back and recap every comment, what I said, what I intended, what I meant, what I was saying and all we will accomplish is boring everybody out of their minds. And you will continue to reframe the question in so slightly different ways and Cyclop will continue to make ad hominem comments and we won't discuss anything that is meaningful to anybody. Is such minutia that important to you?

I think Obama and his spokespersons are constantly drawing comparisons between himself and his opponents and I am 100% certain that is what he was doing yesterday. And I am 100% certain that he did it yesterday in an attempt to derail the traction the Republicans and especially Sarah Palin were getting. I accept that you disagree with that and see it entirely differently. So lets agree to disagree and not bore everybody out of their gourd. Okay?
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 05:00 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote:
FD, we were having a conversation in which I obviously was on a different track than you.
I think thats clear now. I am certainly willing to let it go.

Quote:
I think Obama and his spokespersons are constantly drawing comparisons between himself and his opponents and I am 100% certain that is what he was doing yesterday.

I agree. Thats what he is supposed to do with McCain, with the Republicans in general, but not specifically against the vp candidate, which is what I was talking about. Maybe you didnt understand the exact phenomenon I was talking about.

Quote:
And I am 100% certain that he did it yesterday in an attempt to derail the traction the Republican were getting. I accept that you disagree with that and see it entirely differently.
I agree that he was defending himself against the attacks. Thats what we would expect him to do. And yes, lets just let it go.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 05:00 pm
@Foxfyre,
Did I mention that your ill conceived notions often move into straight out mendacity. If you were able to see that, yes, Bush and his idiotic programs are indeed part and parcel of this election, you wouldn't plump for a repeat of abject failure?

Why do you hate America so much?
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 05:01 pm
Meanwhile, I think this unfolding drama may NOT bore everybody out of their gourds. Good soap opera here:

Quote:
. . . .here are five reasons why O(prah) should have Palin on:

1.) To talk about motherhood, her family and Bristol; if you're really hung up on politics, O, then this doesn't have to be a "political" debriefing at all, per se, but a larger look at even more important issues, which your show claims to care about.

2.) It'd get a huge number. Hell yeah! Perhaps one of the biggest numbers in "O" history. This is a mercenary business, O, in case you've forgotten.

3.) It'd get the show back to that sweet spot of "relevance" and "news-worthiness." Wonderful to have all 150-or-so Olympians on Monday's season premiere, but the Olympics are old news; Palin is fresh news.

4.) Of course, it's O's right to support Obama in whatever forum she chooses, but she's simply too transcendent - her word - a cultural figure to pretend she's lil' ol' objective and non-political Oprah on her show, and yet Obama's most important supporter in the WORLD when she's not on screen. That's a silly artifice, transparent to all. Why not get Palin on and say, "OK, lady, I happen to think this guy walks on water. Now you tell me why he doesn't, and let's go at this." That would be great TV, and far better than a dreary debate between Palin and Joe Biden.

5.) O helped secure at least a million addition votes for Obama but probably lost hundreds of thousands of McCain supporter-viewers - if not more - to her show in the process. Here's her chance to say to everyone, "I have a right to support whomever I choose, and now to prove to you just how open-minded I am, here's the gun-toting mama from Alaska on the show."

http://weblogs.newsday.com/entertainment/tv/blog/_44598705_oprah_obama_ap466.jpg
http://weblogs.newsday.com/entertainment/tv/blog/2008/09/oprah_five_reasons_why_palin_s.html
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  4  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 05:16 pm
@Foxfyre,
Debra Law wrote:

In his convention speech, McCain, the self-appointed agent of change, set forth a goal of REVERTING to the past. He said, "The party of Lincoln, Roosevelt and Reagan is going to get back to basics." McCain then recited the basics of Reaganomics. It's the old trickle-down economic plan that involves the wealthiest families and corporate America splashing around in a big pool of wealth with the hope that maybe a drop or two from their splashing prosperity will fall upon the working people. But, if people recall, Reagan's trickle-down economic plan was an utter failure and he had to RAISE taxes--more than once!

How can McCain make trickle-down economics work when it has never worked in the past? After all, the premise is fatally flawed. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer and the country sinks further into recession. An occasional tax rebate that makes it possible for working people to spend a couple hundred dollars at Wal Mart isn't going to create jobs or keep people from losing their homes.

In response, Foxfyre wrote:

Do you favor Obama's suggestion to limit drilling offshore and elsewhere but send everybody $1000 to offset high energy costs? If not, why? If so, why?

****

Foxfyre: If Obama adopted the same old failed policy of trickle-down economics that McCain has adopted when this country is $9 trillion in debt and then sent every family a $1000 check, I would denouce him as fiscally irresponsible. But, that's not Obama's economic plan.

Personally, I own mineral rights and drilling would definitely serve MY financial interests. Drill Baby Drill! Oh wait. Our national reserves of oil, even using the most optimistic estimates, are not enough to satisfy our needs. Our only choice, as a nation, is to develop renewable sources of energy.

Before McCain flipflopped on the issue of offshore drilling, McCain said, "With those resources, which would take years to develop, you would only postpone or temporarily relieve our dependency on fossil fuels." McCain emphasized that we must devote our efforts to alternative energy sources because we need those alternatives SOONER rather than later. By flipflopping on this issue, McCain isn't serving the interests of the people. Instead, McCain is serving the interests of big oil tycoons and their lobbyists who clearly have a vested interest in seeing those energy alternatives come much LATER rather than sooner.
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 05:21 pm
@Debra Law,
Hi Debra. Lots of stuff there and thank you for introducing some substance here. I'll get back to it okay? Right now I have skullery duties in the kitchen, and I think we have company coming in a bit.

But never fear, I shall return.
0 Replies
 
Debra Law
 
  3  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 05:32 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote, "Don't see how there can be an "October surprise" when the anti-Palin media blitz is dragging through the mud every thing negative they can find or make up about her all the way back to gradeschool."

I perceive whining because Palin, a woman candidate, is the subject of media scrutiny. Here's what I have to say about that:

Quote:
Did Palin Call Hillary Clinton a Whiner?

September 02, 2008 7:49 PM

ABC News' Eloise Harper reports: Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, in a video interview with Newsweek, posted on YouTube, discussed the coverage of Sen. Hillary Clinton. In an interview that appears to have taken place during the Democratic primary, Palin criticizes Clinton for her response to media scrutiny she received while on the campaign trail.

Palin says, "When I hear a statement like that coming from a woman candidate with any kind of perceived whine about that excess criticism or, you know, maybe a sharper microscope put on her, I think, man, that doesn’t do us any good. Women in politics, women in general wanting to progress this country. I don’t think it’s, it bodes well for her -- a statement like that."








Debra Law
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 05:33 pm
LIAR, LIAR, PALIN'S SKIRT ON FIRE (again):

Alaska state jet didn't fly on eBay
Posted: 07:19 PM ET

From CNN Correspondent Christine Romans

ANCHORAGE, Alaska (CNN) " Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin bolstered her fiscal-conservative credentials early in her term by putting her predecessor's state jet up for auction online.

"That luxury jet was over the top," she told Republican National Convention delegates when she accepted the party's vice presidential nomination Wednesday night. "I put it on eBay."

Since Palin was chosen as Arizona Sen. John McCain's running mate last week, the story has become a cornerstone of the Republican effort to paint Palin as a reformer who took on her own party establishment.

"How many saw her speech a couple of nights ago? Wasn't it fabulous?" McCain said Friday during a campaign stop in Cedarburg, Wisconsin. "You know what I enjoyed the most? She took the luxury jet that was purchased by her predecessor and sold it on eBay " and made a profit."

But it turns out the twin-engine Westwind II was a tough sell on the Web " and the state eventually pulled it offline and sold it through an ordinary brick-and-mortar brokerage, for a loss, a spokeswoman said Friday.

"Governor Palin has been correct in saying that she put the plane on eBay," McCain campaign spokeswoman Maria Comella told CNN. "They did end up selling it for $2.1 million. but not on eBay."

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/


0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 05:36 pm
@Debra Law,
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 05:50 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Now that's where we differ. You see, I do have faith that the American voters will see through the shinny veneer of Obama. American voters who put the two Presidential candidates in the balance, I'm sure will be able to know to a reasonable certainty that McCain will meet every challenge with courage and integrity, while Obama's rhetoric may fail when put to the acid test. The American voters who live quiet lives and deal with problems, I'm sure will identify more with Gov. Palin, than with Obama. Those who want to see changes in Washington, will recognize that the GOP slate have demonstrated that they are willing to fight for change, whereas Obama only talks about it.

I have faith in the American People to be able to separate glowing, but empty promises from those who have already risked their personal political careers to challenge entrenched partisan interests.
Debra Law
 
  3  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 05:56 pm
@Foxfyre,
Foxfyre wrote: "Yes, Sarah has shown she can take criticism, even cruel, malicious, sexist, unfair, and dishonest criticism, and she can take it with poise, grace, and good humor without playing the victim in any respect, which is more than I can say of Senator Obama's ability to even take mild criticism."

That is NOT true. The "pitbull with lipstick," as she describes herself, who criticized Clinton for a whining about media scrutiny, by and through one of her party handlers, was screaming SEXISM. See:

Quote:
ST. PAUL, Minnesota (CNN) " Senior McCain adviser Carly Fiorina said Tuesday that Barack Obama, Joe Biden and other Democrats were engaging in sexist attacks on Sarah Palin, as Republicans continued to invoke Hillary Clinton to criticize the Democratic presidential ticket.

“I am appalled by the Obama campaign's attempts to belittle Governor Sarah Palin’s experience,” said Fiorina. “The facts are that Sarah Palin has made more executive decisions as a Mayor and Governor than Barack Obama has made in his life.

“Because of Hillary Clinton's historic run for the Presidency and the treatment she received, American women are more highly tuned than ever to recognize and decry sexism in all its forms. They will not tolerate sexist treatment of Governor Palin.”

Fiorina pointed to a Monday interview with CNN’s Anderson Cooper, when Obama responded to GOP arguments that Palin had more executive experience than he or Biden did.

“Well, my understanding is that Governor Palin's town of Wasilla has I think 50 employees,” he said. “We've got 2,500 in this campaign. I think their budget is maybe $12 million a year. You know, we have a budget of about three times that just for the month. So I think that our ability to manage large systems and to execute I think has been made clear over the last couple of years.”

She also pointed to a comment Biden made on the trail over the weekend, when he joked with the crowd at a campaign event that one of the “obvious differences” between him and Palin was that she is “good looking.”


Let's see. Palin claims that she has more executive experience than Obama. When Obama responds by comparing his experience to hers, she calls him sexist.





Asherman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 06:02 pm
@FreeDuck,
The muckraking liberal press will dredge the swamps looking for anything at all to smear Gov. Palin. If they can find something like, say a 20 year membership in a church presided over by a racist minister who has been her close adviser, mentor and friend, then we might have some trouble. If the Democrats can show that she's had the support and friendship of an unrepentant Weather Underground Terrorist, then maybe she should step aside.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 06:04 pm
@Asherman,
Quote:
Those who want to see changes in Washington, will recognize that the GOP slate have demonstrated that they are willing to fight for change, whereas Obama only talks about it.


Are we talking about the same GOP? 'cause, I could have swore that they were the ones who have been governing for the last 8 years. What changes is McCain going to make, that would be so far away from the Bush way of doing things? They agree on nearly every issue, and McCain's campaign is ran by the same Rove operatives that put Bush in power. What fighting for change has the GOP demonstrated, exactly?

No, I'm afraid that you have simply fallen for the bullshit, Ash. McCain represents no actual change and not even a desire for change; just an attempt to steal a successful slogan, in a year where people have signaled they are upset with the way things have been done.

Cycloptichorn
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 06:09 pm
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:

Let's see. Palin claims that she has more executive experience than Obama. When Obama responds by comparing his experience to hers, she calls him sexist.


yeah. that's real change. "don't do as i do, do as i say".

attack, attack, attack. and when the otherside has had enough and responds, it's all "you're attacking me unfairly".

i've already seen "why do you hate america" used at least once in the last few days.

newsflash; voting for someone other than the gop is not hating america. it's democracy.

0 Replies
 
okie
 
  3  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 08:20 pm
Real pleasant conversation here! haha.

I guess the state of affairs now, in this country is, since ordinary politicians are considered fuddy duddy anymore, and out of date, and since the Dems came up with their messiah to lead them to the promised land, It is coming clear now that the only way to combat this was for the Republicans to come up with their own rock star, enter Sarah Palin. Don't get me wrong, I'm not sure Sarah wants to be the rock star, but that is how this has evolved. Hey, I heard today that optomitrists were being called with requests for glasses designed like Palins.

If anybody can convince me that this is the way politics has always been in this country, I would be favorably inclined to listen, but otherwise I think we have now entered a new phase of politics. I realize JFK was a rockstar, but on this level, I doubt it. And we have a new twist to this whole thing, political correctness, which involves gender and race. Everyone wants to get into the act to prove they are so with it these days, so politically correct, and so liberated and open minded, never mind issues and principles. Now, you read articles about how so neat it is that either a woman vp or a black president will gain office, no mention of political issues. I don't know, but I wonder if pop culture has now suddenly invaded politics in a very serious way, something that we will not recover from very easily, without some pretty traumatic experiences to cure the sick society that we now have.
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 09:08 pm
@okie,
okie wrote:

I guess the state of affairs now, in this country is, since ordinary politicians are considered fuddy duddy anymore, and out of date, and since the Dems came up with their messiah to lead them to the promised land, It is coming clear now that the only way to combat this was for the Republicans to come up with their own rock star, enter Sarah Palin.


Well, okie, I dont often agree with you. But I think youre on to something here.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 09:10 pm
@okie,
A rock(et) star can come crashing down as fast as it went up. LOL
JTT
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 09:16 pm
@Asherman,
Quote:
The muckraking liberal press will dredge the swamps looking for anything at all to smear Gov. Palin.


There's no need to dredge the swamps, Ash, there's plenty of Republican scum right at the surface. You've seen it over the last eight years but you still lack the necessary honesty to admit it.
McGentrix
 
  2  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 09:25 pm
@Debra Law,
Debra Law wrote:
Let's see. Palin claims that she has more executive experience than Obama. When Obama responds by comparing his experience to hers, she calls him sexist.


Wow, your so blind with hatred you can't even use basic reading comprehension. And you're a lwayer? Scary. It's like you aren't even trying to look at anything with any semblance of education or intelligence.

You do realize that Fiorina is not Palin right? I mean you are capable of making that distinction, right?

Then, Obama has the distinction of comparing her being a mayor to his running a campaign? Why not use her term as Governor instead? I suppose that would be too difficult for the boy wonder...
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 5 Sep, 2008 10:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Obama, of course, is the rock star whose demise will come on 04NOV, the only poll worth spit.
0 Replies
 
 

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