Reply Sat 16 Aug, 2008 08:11 pm
Anwar was formally charged earlier this month, just after his wife vacated the Permatang Pauh constituency -- which she has held since he went to jail -- to allow him to return to parliament after a decade-long absence.

Is the part in bold face correct? Anwar's wife stepped down as MP recently to allow him to contest the by-election. Is 'has' correctly used? Should it be 'had'?

Many thanks.
 
View Profile roger
 
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Reply Sat 16 Aug, 2008 08:15 pm
"has held", if she still holds it. Otherwise, "had".

I'm going to thumb this up, so everybody can have their chance to tell me I'm wrong.
View Profile JTT
 
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Reply Sat 16 Aug, 2008 09:00 pm
On my screen there isn't anything in bold, Tanguatlay. I suspect you mean,
which she has held since he went to jail.

I'm gonna say, without tremendous conviction, that it is a present perfect of currentness/importance.

The action described by the present perfect doesn't always have to still be in force. Often, a finished action is "present perfected" to show that the past action is important to now.

I've cut my finger vs I cut my finger

She's said so vs she said so

One could also use "which she held ..." OR "which she had held ..."
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Reply Sun 17 Aug, 2008 02:37 am
Roger is right. If she holds the position she "has held it for x years". If she "vacated" the position she "had held it for x years".

You can think of the "past perfect" tense as "before a moment in the past". So if she "vacated" the position it puts this in the past, and would mean "she had held" the position before that point in the past where it was "vacated".

Here's some easier examples:

I saw roger on an English thread today, he had answered the question and I wanted to agree with his answer.

When I saw roger on the thread (in the past) he had already answered (before this moment in the past).
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View Profile Seed
 
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Reply Sun 17 Aug, 2008 12:48 pm
Just want to pipe up and say you're wrong Roger
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View Profile JTT
 
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Reply Sun 17 Aug, 2008 02:27 pm
Quote:
Roger wrote:
"has held", if she still holds it. Otherwise, "had".

I'm going to thumb this up, so everybody can have their chance to tell me I'm wrong.


Quote:
Robert wrote:
Roger is right. If she holds the position she "has held it for x years". If she "vacated" the position she "had held it for x years".

Bush has held the position of governor.

I have held a position as a gravel truck driver.

Roger, JTT and Robert have replied to Tanguatlay.

All finished events, Robert, yet still, you can see that we can use the present perfect.


Quote:

You can think of the "past perfect" tense as "before a moment in the past". So if she "vacated" the position it puts this in the past, and would mean "she had held" the position before that point in the past where it was "vacated".

Here's some easier examples:

I saw roger on an English thread today, he had answered the question and I wanted to agree with his answer.

When I saw roger on the thread (in the past) he had already answered (before this moment in the past).


In this case, I'd have to say that Roger is wrong, Robert, at least in as much as Tanguatlay's question is involved. While what Roger described/has described and you described/you've described certainly is valid, you have to make note of the focus of the original.

Again, things that are finished do not have to be described with the past perfect. Note above, with the verb "described" and further above in red.

Most often, we use the simple past to describe finished events.

Your example,

"I saw roger on an English thread today, he had answered the question and I wanted to agree with his answer."

could be,

"I saw roger on an English thread today. He has answered the question and I wanted to agree with his answer."

OR

"I saw roger on an English thread today -- he has answered the question and I wanted to agree with his answer."

I've just shifted the focus from how you were envisioning it with the past perfect, to the present perfect of currentness/ importance.


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Reply Wed 20 Aug, 2008 11:37 pm
Thanks for your replies, but I'm confused because JTT and the other posters give different answers.

Sorry for being so confused.
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