Is a utopia possible?

"Live as if your were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever." - Gandhi

("I don't mind" was a modest play on words in response to JLN's post)

We shouldn't get caught up in semantics here. For the purposes of this thread, "utopia" means a perfect place, as it does in the traditional sense (I mean, come on, who ever heard of a "eutopia"??).

Aperson, I hear of it occasionally. "Eu" means good, as in euphoria.

Chumly, Ghandi was a wise man--"Live as if your were to die tomorrow. ...." - Gandhi --
But that dictum calls for a life of anxiety. I prefer "live as if you died yesterday." Nothing to gain; nothing to lose: just experience the moment as it is. Not easy.

JLN, Not is it "not easy," but practically impossible.

If you were correct then Gandhi would have been constantly anxious, of which he certainly was not.

And from your viewpoint, being dead is not motivating.......no odds to better.

People familiar with proper English usage?

JLN -- I agree that living as though one were to die tomorrow can be a potential source of great anxiety. The problem here is precisely semantic. Had Ghandi said, instead, "Live as though tomorrow is irrelevant," I would wholeheartedly agree. It echoes the Biblical "Give no thought for the morrow." If I do today what I perceive to be correct action, tomorrow will take care of itself. No need to give it a second thought.

Very good MA.

Chumly, I don't think Ghandi was very anxious because he did not feel as if he were soon to die . He was just stating a kind of spiritual strategy, as was I. If one takes me literally, living as if I were already dead would be a pretty innert modus vivendi.

I understand; howevah.......often I can't help injecting a bit of irreverence / tongue-in-cheekiness blended in with my response......this really does not translate into text, but what the hell.

Factor in an average of 20% - 30% goober versus 70% - 80% normalized.

I knew immediately when JLN made the clarification between utopia and eutopia that he was providing the correct definitions, even though I believed all my life in the common definition - a perfect social system.

Then when Merry Andrew chimed in, it confirmed my trust in JLN.

It depends on how much you or the people around you and the people you know are willing to strive for one. Humanity has a choice on what to create. If we want to build a Hell than go ahead but don't expect me to take apart in it. I look toward a better world, not a world in which all hope is forsaken. What you could call an Utopia.

To blame "human nature" may be nothing more than a rationalization, an excuse for not facing the realities.

The world is governed by a free market economy. In such a world, true power lies in ownership of debts. Debt is the inevitable result of today's monetary system, since every single dollar that is created is loaned out from the bank in which it was created, and has to be repaid with interest (The creation of the loan agreement is the creation of the money that is borrowed). But if every dollar made has to be repaid with interest, the money to pay the interest doesn't exist.
In such a system, where everyone has their loaned money, when the time comes to pay it back with interest, there is no place to find the money to pay the interest other than in someone else's pocket. This means that you are forced to compete with everyone else in order to not go bankrupt. It also means that if you succeed, someone else has to fail.

There is no room in this to be ethical. If you make your customer aware that the radio he is considering to buy isn't as good as the one they sell cheaper next door, which would be behaviour conscistent with any idea of utopia, you would not be in business for very long.

My point is that there is no room in our world anymore for truth and honor. They have become lesser priorities behind the constant need to keep repaying a debt that can never be repaid.
This is the problem, not human nature.
And for the first time, perhaps ever, we as a global community, are in a position to do something about this problem. But not without sacrifice.

A big step towards a better world would be replacing the current money based economy with a resource based economy, eliminating debt and thereby truly abolishing slavery.

Because today, a free man is really nothing more than a slave who is charged with housing and feeding himself.

As usual an excellent post. Good to see you back, Cyracuz. The Economic Man model of man presumes a brute creature totally and blindly adapted to a brutal reality. As creative beings we must be able to construct a better reality. As an artist-philosopher you are compelled to pursue such an alternative.

Nothing is impossible, Ghandi defeated the greatest nation with mere words.

Thanks JL.

Our assertation that "human nature" is inherently evil may simply be something we believe because it is not immediately clear that the society we have created is such that an individual is forced to cultivate the "negative" aspects of being human, such as selfishness, greed and dishonesty, to succeed.

A good example is the transport business I have been working in from time to time. Due to competition, my boss took the contract for what he was offered. The only problem is that the money he gets for the job we do is not enough to cover the expenses of running the company, paying our wages and keeping the trucks running. So he is forced to cut corners, to act with dishonesty just to make it to the next month.
And if we want this to work, if we don't want to lose our jobs, we are forced to work overtime without getting paid. And the benefits of our extra effort goes soley to the company that gave us the contract. Messed up, if you ask me. That is why I quit that job, and i encourage everyone I know who are in the same situation to do the same.
And this is in Norway, one of the richest countries in the world. That said, I can add that Wall Mart has more economic power than Norway. Out of the 100 largest economies of the world, as of 2005, 49 of them were nations while 51 of them were multinational corporations, the majority of which are US based.

Outside the box we are in his likeness. Inside we are just a spark of life He also created. Obedience was His first test. I don't know who He is but I trust He means us no harm. The Utopia He promises us will NOT have anything to do with our human form.

Is a Utopia possible? Yes however human nature would have to change to accommodate wherever was set out to be considered Utopian. Probable...that's another matter.