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What causes Frame Dragging (gravity friction)?

 
 
Reply Wed 26 Mar, 2008 09:27 pm
Frame Dragging is a phenomena predicted by GR and confirmed by experiment.

Rotational Frame Dragging occurs when a massive object (like a planet, or neutron star) rotates and 'drags' on the space-time around it almost as though there were friction between the mass and the space around it. However, the force causing this is NOT friction.

The thought experiment used to describe Frame Dragging is to imagine a paper plate with a puddle of Honey on it. Then you place a superball in the middle of the honey and rotate the superball. If there are peppercorns sprinkled in the honey, you will see the peppercorns which are nearest the superball pulled along by the viscosity of the honey. A similar effect occurs in the gravitational field of a rotating body.

The following quote is in the article linked above:
Quote:
The rotation of the Earth does twist the spacetime frame like the ball twists the honey, although it is not caused by "friction" between the Earth and local spacetime. It is unclear to scientists exactly how this phenomena occurs. The theory of general relativity suggests that spacetime and masses have a mysterious mutual "grip" on each other.


I would like to hear some reasonable (no magic please) speculation and discussion as to how this effect can occur. How can there be 'friction' in gravity?
 
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Reply Thu 27 Mar, 2008 05:55 am
Does the Frame Dragging cause the rotating mass to slow down at all?

I'm having a hard time imagining this effect without thinking of it like friction, in which the effect on one object has a counter effect on the other (and a transfer of energy). But in the case of Frame Dragging I'm not sure there is any transfer of energy between the various components of the system.
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Reply Sat 12 Apr, 2008 08:45 pm
Because relativity states space tells matter how to move and matter tells space how to warp!

You have a large mass at least spinning - if not in movement - you will be affecting the curvature of spacetime around you. If this object is a Sun - then its radiating tremendous energy and losing mass every second - so the gravity well isn't constant over the longer term - energy is escaping into space - changing the topology of said local space.

Another factor to consider is are the two or more bodies in orbit of solid / rigid matter or do these bodies have either viscous surfaces or inner volumes of greatly varying density? Consider the Earth / Moon system - Earth has oceans that the Moon (and Sun) effect. Gravitational interaction affects the land too - just about 1/30th as small as the oceans. Rising tides exerts forces that water friction resists to quell over time each day. Such interaction between the Earth and Moon slows both the rotational period of each, and slows both down in motion relative to each other To counterbalance this the Earth and Moon recede from each other about 3cm each year! Two water planets orbiting each other would recess over time faster than two ice planets of equal mass!

Friction is a bad term to use and a steady state model will over-simplify things. May I suggest de-mystify this by restating the problem. Describe the forces of change acting on a system over time - concentrate on envisioning the changing topology (curvature due to energy density) of the region considered as time advances and energy density (what energy is where changes) changes - topology (the curvature of the spacetime field) changes.

The key is to stop thinking of gravity as a force of attraction and see it as a curvature of a 3 dimensional field, then ask are things generating or affecting this field changing over time? By the time our Sun ends its life - it will have radiated so much mass that to maintain equilibrium the Earth / Sun equilibrium our planets orbit will shift to beyond where Mars lies today (another 50 million kilometres further out)! Imagine the Sun went nova and blew itself into eight parts that flew away at say 80 percent of light speed - hence leaving our solar system within a day - the planets would drift apart because the spacetime around them has un-curved - not because any force within the space time intself has pushed them away!
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Reply Sun 13 Apr, 2008 11:29 am
Thanks G_Day. I'll have to think about this. I'm not sure I understand yet.
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Reply Fri 21 Nov, 2008 07:35 pm
The "frame drag" as an effect of motion has also puzzled me. But if one can figure it out (which I think possible) then gravity simply becomes a field generated by relative motion and "curved space" becomes simply the result of motion through spacetime. I think that you can chase this effect all the way into atomic theory and through intergalactic space but I certainly don't know it!

For instance, an orbit is a straight line in curved spacetime. OR an orbit is a curved line in straight spacetime. If the frame drag effect turns out to be a force or field similar in some respects to an electromagnetic field then we don't have to curve space anymore. It could prove interesting. I am only speculating at this point and certainly couldn't argue it!

Just for grins look at a magnetic drive in an aquarium filter. The parts are linked only by magnetic fields.

Then change fields and do it with a universe or an atom. Best of luck,

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