water softener replacement

If you are on a budget I suggest you look for a new softener with either a Fleck or Clack control valve.
If you can afford to invest a bit more money, I suggest a new softener from EcoWater.
Either way - deal with a local independent H2O specialist.

HTH ~

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Re: water softener replacement

vigeek wrote:

I currently have a Culligan water softener that is about 25 years old and I'm playing taps for it. I need to replace it and do not want to go the Culligan route again - too expensive. I need a basic reliable water softener for medium to light hardness. I was directed towards a supply company that sells MacClean water softeners. The particular one is 30000 grains which is plenty for the number of people in the house. The part number I was told was MCWS100ME, but I cannot find anything about that on the MacClean website.

Can anyone tell me about this brand and its reliability?

That is a 1.0 cuft (30K) softener using a Clack WS-1 control valve. The Clack WS-1 is the best choice for a DIYer type person, male or female, that wants to be able to repair their own softener when needed. You'll pay substantially more for their softener than if you bought a correctly sized softener online with a Clack WS-1 control on it. If you don't want to install it yourself, hire a plumber for $200-$450 and you'll still save hundreds to a thousand or more of the local dealers' prices.

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Support your local H2O specialist ~ support your local economy.

If you purchase drop shipped H2O equipment from a faceless online huckster be prepared to
be treated like a spore that grows into a mushroom after being kept in the dark and fed BS.

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There is good and bad in every segment of the industry. I am speaking with bias as I work in a dealership, but my experience in water treatment is that being able to help the customer, sometimes at a moment's notice, is a great advantage.

Water treatment equipment ARE machines and eventually (often, in some cases) need attention. It is valuable when that attention can be gained through direct contact, or even an office to visit to air complaints, if necessary.

I have purchased items on line and when dissatisfied, I am frustrated at the lack of concern and/or solutions offered via telecommunications.

That is not to say that your local deal isn't a bad choice but at least you deal with them directly.

Andy Christensen, CWS-II

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Folks.... I think I have more experience than these other guys, you be the judge of who should know more about both local dealership and online sales and service.

I was a local dealer for 18 years.

I've sold (still do) online since in 2002 and with my dinky web site seriously since Sept 2003.

Justalurker, a customer of mine, and AndyC, a Kinetico salesman, have never been a dealer and they say they haven't sold online.

H20man says he is an installer, that he isn't a dealer, yet he has a local dealership in Athens GA (Athens Water) and two web sites. Getting the truth out of him is a lot like trying to nail Jello to a wall...

Most local dealerships are only open 8-5 etc. Mon-Fri and maybe a couple hours on Sat selling salt until noon.

I don't know about many online dealers but some advertise more hours/day and 7 days a week. Personally I do Mon-Sat 10 AM to 7:30 PM ET, yet I get calls 'after' hours and 7 days a week. My cell phone only gives a number in caller ID, no name so I rarely don't take a call because it might be a customer but... I do get upset with prospective customer calls 'after hours'.

I have been troubleshooting all brands of water treatment and control valves on the phone since 1987. And on the internet in Google Groups and web site forums since 1997. I have been an electronics troubleshooter (radios at GE) for 5+ years. I maintained nuclear weapons for 5 years (USAF), and maintained my own truck tractors (Peterbilt and Freightliner; 4 total) for 8 years. I've rebuilt car engines, remodeled a house and maintained my two family apartment house, including plumbing.

I have also been a well pump dealer since 1987 and replaced and repaired many pumps to over 500' deep, plus a lot of jet pumps (on ground) and untold numbers of pressure tanks. I do not sell pumps or pressure tanks online or locally, yet I answer a lot of questions about them.

So I think I have more to go on than just an opinion. What do you think?

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Gary Slusser wrote:

Folks.... I think I have more experience than these other guys... blah, blah, blah.

Please post your resume, I'm sure someone is interested.

3 out of 4 are here to help people... where do you think that leaves you?

Folks, support your local H2O specialist ~ support your local economy.

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Gary Slusser wrote:

Folks.... I think I have more experience than these other guys, you be the judge of who should know more about both local dealership and online sales and service.

I am $ALE$MAN hear me roar...

I will drop ship to your door...

Don't give service, that's a fact...

Seeming nice is just an act...

I'll insult you just for fun...

Buy your's local and you have won :wink:

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Yes I earn a living in sales and regardless of your personal attacks and character assassination here, you know I'm very good at what I do and how I do it. But get a grip Stevie, you're sounding more'n more jealous like the Phone Co talking about their Internet competitors Skype and Vonage!

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Gary Slusser wrote:

you're sounding more'n more jealous like the Phone Co talking about their Internet competitors Skype and Vonage!

Yup, in a life and death emergency situation I want to be dependent on my internet access to call 911 for an ambulance just like I want a leaking water softener fixed by someone thousands of miles away over the phone.

We don't all live in a motor home that can be driven to a competent professional.

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Funny you mention it... Yesterday a customer calls saying he has a leaking tank, or the tank adapter more likely since it was not flat against the tank anymore. It's what you and your good buddy h20man call an abnormally large softener; a 3.0 cuft. Anyway his wife hears a POP about 11:30 pm out in the garage in AZ where this LARGE softener is and goes to look. She sees water spraying and puts the softener into by-pass. He sends me a picture and calls me in the morning (yesterday); he works nights.

I say the adapter is bad and order one but tell him to take the Clack WS-1 valve off and the adapter out and inspect the tank and adapter threads and let me know what you find. He takes the valve off and the adapter out and sends more pictures and calls me. It's the adapter.

He should have the new adapter by Tuesday or Wednesday but I see you are as scared and paranoid of everything now as you told me you were back in 2004 when you bought your softener and I guess you need company the way you try to scare people....

BTW, this is only the 4th tank leak in 21 years and many thousands of sales. Tanks leak very very very rarely and usually it is a small leak (no big leaks yet) AND, the fault here in this instance, IS NOT THE TANK, it's the adapter used to reduce the 4" tank opening to 2.5" so a regular control valve can be screwed into it. So I've had 3 leaking tanks, not 4. This is the first adapter, should I be scared?

You mentioning traveling, you aren't doing much I guess what with being unemployed for years huh. Sorry buddy but, I can look you up we get to NM next spring. This year's plan fell through. I'll take you for a ride. Hey, did I ever tell you I used to own, maintain and operate (that means drive them Steve) tractor trailers? Yep, I had four of them and once when I had two new Peterbilts on the road, long haul stuff (meaning cross country Steve), I drove for a local company as a Teamster too for about 6 months! Man could those guys whine'n bitch!!! They were afraid of this'n that too, anyway I just had to quit. That was between Maine and Chicago and back, no long stuff. There were no cell phones back in the day Steve but my cell has GPS and E911. GPS on the MH too through our two computers Actually all cells have to have it since like two years ago or so.

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Gary Slusser wrote:

He should have the new adapter by Tuesday or Wednesday

Leaks on Friday and may be fixed by Tuesday or Wednesday.

Your customer got what they paid for.

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Finally you got something right!

He initially saved about $2000. When there was a problem he could contact the dealer "after hours". Plus he got to talk to 'the service guy' instead the young thing at the local dealer that answers the phone and runs the appointment book only.

He is getting the part free of cost to him within about the same time frame as a local dealer could provide it IF they had it in stock. Days sooner if the dealer didn't have the part. Which in this case most will not have it in stock.

And then he or his wife do not have to rearrange their daily schedules to be there whenever a local dealers' service guy would want to show up; usually stated as a time frame between 2-4 hours IF he shows up on time and doesn't call to reschedule it for the next morning because he's running late and quits at 4:30 or 5 PM.

An added benefit for my DIYer customer is that he is intimately involved in the assembly, setup, programming, installation AND service of his softener.

That can be thought of as someone involved in his health care getting better health care than someone that simply turns it over to the health care industry personnel while asking a few conversational only type questions and never learning anything about it themselves.

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Gary Slusser wrote:

An added benefit? for my DIYer customer is that he is intimately involved in the assembly, setup, programming, installation AND service of his softener.

Benefit?In your mind (obviously) but in the real world... the trained eye of a professional would have spotted the defective adapter during the assembly of the softener and solved the problem right there and then rather than wait till later for the homeowner to deal with it.

You (understandably) attempt, in your mind and in your posts, to mitigate the disadvantages of buying unassembled parts of a water treatment equipment system (long distance) that no trained eye at the anonymous shipper inspects before being shipped to the untrained DIYer who doesn't know what to look for during assembly is but ONE of the disadvantages in buying long distance from an anonymous drop-shipper that you so flippantly dismiss.

A water treatment professional would have provided a matching size control valve to fit the 4" opening in the resin tank, rather than a much smaller 2.5" control valve, eliminating the need for an unnecessary adapter that introduced at least two more sealing surfaces that can possibly leak for the unsuspecting and untrained end user to deal with.

Using more parts than necessary is the plumber's mentality (my apologies to plumbers who don't) of why use two parts when you can use three or four which the homeowner pays for in one way or another time and time again.

Your repeated generalizing that no local water treatment professional provides timely service nor stocks parts for what they sell transcends ignorance and is either sheer stupidity or just plain snake oil salesmanship. Professionals do provide timely service and stock parts for what they sell. As a result of those professional business practices their customers enjoy their soft water and don't post on self-help forums. It is disingenuous for you to arbitrarily and unilaterally accuse ethical and responsible professionals of lowering their business practices to your level when they don't.

Your customer got a defective part that should never have been shipped and never should have been installed.

They got what they paid for and they'll (hopefully) have soft water again on Tuesday or Wednesday.

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justalurker wrote:

A water treatment professional would have provided a matching size control valve to fit the 4" opening in the resin tank, rather than a much smaller 2.5" control valve, eliminating the need for an unnecessary adapter that introduced at least two more sealing surfaces that can possibly leak for the unsuspecting and untrained end user to deal with.

Yep, because of the increased risk of leaks the use of adapters is not recommended.

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Do all Clack valves require that an adapter be used? If not, please explain why an adapter was specified instead of using a valve that was compatible with this tank. I would think that the tanks and valves would be somewhat standardized, in order to eliminate the need for unnecessary parts. A 4" opening in a tank is huge. Is this a situation where an industrial tank was mated with a residential valve? I'm just trying to understand what necessitated this situation.

Thanks
Phil

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Big Dog wrote:

Do all Clack valves require that an adapter be used?

No, the Clack is a standard 2.5" mount intended for common residential sized media tanks with a 2.5" attachment and does not require any adapter to mate with the corresponding sized mineral tank

Big Dog wrote:

If not, please explain why an adapter was specified instead of using a valve that was compatible with this tank. I would think that the tanks and valves would be somewhat standardized, in order to eliminate the need for unnecessary parts. A 4" opening in a tank is huge. Is this a situation where an industrial tank was mated with a residential valve? I'm just trying to understand what necessitated this situation.

Every listing I can find on the internet shows and recommends larger commercial sized media tanks with a 4" opening mated with a corresponding commercial control valve with a 4" attachment.

Among the reasons (excuses?) for using a smaller valve and adapter on a larger mineral tank that immediately occur to me are...

* the absolute cheapest way to do the job... 4" mount commercial control valves cost much more than a 2.5" control valve

* Gary loves the Clack WS1 so much he'll recommend it's use in less than optimum circumstances such as using an adapter

* not knowing any better

The right size is the right size and NO adapter should always be preferred.

I'm sure that Gary will be along to offer his explanation...

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justalurker wrote:

Benefit? In your mind (obviously) but in the real world... the trained eye of a professional would have spotted the defective adapter during the assembly of the softener and solved the problem right there and then rather than wait till later for the homeowner to deal with it.

Sorry but that wouldn't happen, no one can see what is wrong with the tank adapter.

justalurker wrote:

DIYer who doesn't know what to look for during assembly is but ONE of the disadvantages in buying long distance from an anonymous drop-shipper that you so flippantly dismiss.

Why don't you realize that there is a large number of people that want to buy softeners etc. online and are more than willing to assemble, install and repair it when needed? It is no different than those wanting to build or remodel their own house. Or sell it themselves. Or build their own computer from scratch. Or replace the roof. Or do hundreds of other things for themselves.

justalurker wrote:

A water treatment professional would have provided a matching size control valve to fit the 4" opening in the resin tank, rather than a much smaller 2.5" control valve, eliminating the need for an unnecessary adapter that introduced at least two more sealing surfaces that can possibly leak for the unsuspecting and untrained end user to deal with.

One problem with that is there are no 1" control valves used for a 3.0 cuft softener with anything other than the standard 2.5" base.

Another problem is that there are no tanks for a 3.0 cuft softener that have a 2.5" neck... So you either use the adapter, that "other part", or you don't use the correct sized softener.

Question: Why don't you and your buddy here know those two facts?

justalurker wrote:

Your repeated generalizing that no local water treatment professional provides timely service nor stocks parts for what they sell transcends ignorance and is either sheer stupidity or just plain snake oil salesmanship. Professionals do provide timely service and stock parts for what they sell.

Your customer got a defective part that should never have been shipped and never should have been installed.

Oh? Like I said, no one can see what is wrong with the adapter, but tell us, why do you think a local dealer would stock this "extra part" that you say shouldn't be used; but must be used for numerous size tanks?

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Gary Slusser wrote:

... there is a large number of people that want to buy softeners etc. online
and are more than willing to assemble, install and repair it when needed ...

There is a segment of the population that will buy the cheapest thing they can find online.
I'm sure you could sell and drop ship do it yourself heart surgery kits to a small number of people if the price was less than traditional health care.
The number of people that buy H2O equipment online is insignificant when compared to reported sales and installations industry wide.

The Clack valve is a Fleck design intended to be the next generation Fleck valve.
It was intended to be sold and installed by H2O specialist.
The Clack valve was not made to be sold online and drop shipped to end users.

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Gary Slusser wrote:

One problem with that is there are no 1" control valves used for a 3.0 cuft softener with anything other than the standard 2.5" base.

Another problem is that there are no tanks for a 3.0 cuft softener that have a 2.5" neck... So you either use the adapter, that "other part", or you don't use the correct sized softener.

The overriding problem is that the customer didn't seek out a water treatment professional to advise him/her and configure his/her water treatment system.

Your customer got what they paid for and hopefully they'll have their soft water back on Tuesday or Wednesday.

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water softener replacement

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